Dynamic torpedo system
Slydev's picture
Posted on:
Monday, April 30, 2018 - 18:39

So I have been thinking of the best way to approach the combat system and have started with the firepower given the idea that the type of space combat will be close to that of modern day submarine and naval combat. Though combat can be best summed up by "Invisibility will be the most effective armour in space." (from the combat overview). The other thing to take note of for combat is that In space we dont know what we are up against, so we have to by agile. A dynamic approach to combat may be our only chance at survival if things take a turn for the worst.

Detecting signatures with EMDAR and firing at locations should be quite an engaging and tense experience. In continuing development for this type of combat I propose the following ideas for the torpedo system.

Ordinance:
Torpedos exist and are armed on the ship but in limited capacity, however new torpedoes can be manufactured using the Automated Fabrication Plant (Basically a big 3d printer on the ship, name is pending). This lets us store torpedos as raw material and also choose what ordinance we need to suit what we are fighting against. Being both dynamic and efficient makes this the best approach to anything we might be up against.

Torpedo Build:
A torpedo can have 3 sections. Payload, Guidance, Thrusters. Although only a payload is nessisairy the others will add significant advantages (and disadvantages) which will have to be decided on by a crew member as to what will be best for what we are up against.

Some payload ideas:

Slug
A solid mass payload. Mass can be chosen on production but a higher mass will not be as fast once it is fired from the rail (unless more power is put into firing it).
Armor Damage: HIGH
Penetration: HIGH
Area of affect: LOW
Time to produce: LOW (but gets higher depending on the mass of the slug)
Pros: The advantage of this payload is that it is devistating to an armored ship and as long as it is fired right it will rip through armor and penetrate into the hull of a ship causing massive damage.
Cons: Hitting with this payload is extremly difficult though can be improved by adding a guidance system to the torpedo (more on that later)
Damage calculation: M*A.
These are your 'finishers', massive damage but at the cost that they are easy to avoid as they cannot change direction quickly (given their mass)

Warhead
An explosive payload that detinates when it reaches a terget location, or signature (or can be detonated remotely)
Armor Damage: MEDIUM
Penetration: LOW
Area of affect: MEDIUM
Damage calculation: (Material Dmg modifier * Mass of material) / Distance from explosion
Time to produce: HIGH (These may be limited, not sure if the AFP should be able to build these).
Pros: Large area effect means this torpedo has a high chance to hit, also being able to be detonated when it gets close to a specific signature or even manually means it is quite dynamic. Can turn a lot quicker (maybe even 180 for smaller ones?) as their mass is low.
Cons: Not easy to produce, needs specific materials which if stored on the ship could be explosive themselves, if stored in a non explosive way then takes a while to be manufactured.

Shrapnel (cluster round)
A warhead with balls of bass and a small detonator inside it
Armor damage: LOW
Penetration: MEDIUM
Area of affect: HIGH
Time to produce: MEDIUM
Damage Calculator: M*A (Basically fires small slugs in all directions from point of detonation). If it hits before detonating it will be M*A.
Pros: High chance to hit in the AOE, acts like slug if it hits something before it detonates. Like the warhead can detonate at a location, when it gets close to a signature or manually.
Cons: Cannot turn quickly so are limited in their directional range depending on where the ship is facing.

Sticky
A non damaging/non explosive payload that has hooks that will dig into a ship
Armor Damage: None
Penetration: None (technically)
Area of affect: LOW
Time to produce: LOW
Damage Calculator: None
Pros: This torpedo might not seem like much but once it attaches to something it will not let go. My idea with this is that it can be fitted with a tracker on it giving us 1:1 information of the ship it is attached too, making firing on that ship almost impossible to miss. Alternativly it could be used to scan the ship, or even attached with a booster to push something away or off our direction (lets say there was a bigger ship trying to ram us)
Cons: Doesn't do any damage, is all utility.
 

That is my idea for different payloads and the effects they would have. I feel that they give a good range of tactics and are something we can build on as we go. I appreciate any feedback or expansion on ideas presented with these (and anything I post) :)

Next is the middle of the missile, the control system. This part is not manditory as we can fire directly from the railgun with no guidance at something we can point the ship at. For that reason the option to have no guidance system is avaliable. (Plus it will take extra time for a guidance system to be added to the torpedo, as well as using more materials)

Directionable:
A simple direction system that will let a torpedo steer in space (by ejecting gas most likely) this is used to make a torpedo go to a set location within range. (Need to think of range like a cone from where the torpedo is fired). This cannot be controlled remotely and are fire & forget. Great against targets that dont move or where we know where they will be (space stations/asteroids)
Time to add to torpedo: LOW

Guidable:
The next level up, will let us move the torpedo remotely, changing its direction can be done on the fly.
Time to add to torpedo: MEDIUM

Tracking:
The ultimate add on to any warhead. Tracking gives the torpedo its own mini EMDAR system that will seek out a specific signal and detonate on impact. These can be overtaken any time to manually guide if need be (also maybe change the thing it is tracking?)
Time to add to torpedo: HIGH

That is all my ideas for control systems. As you can see the more powerful they get the longer they take to produce. Another nerfing method will be that they weight more and thus leave with a slower velocity (which will lower the damage of mass projectiles and make torpedoes easier to shoot down/out menuver)

Last part is the optional back for the torpedo, which for now is just one thing:

Booster:
A rocket that will give the torpedo accelleration. Great if we need a warhead to hit faster and will up the damage for mass based projectiles. Though it means we have less control over the torpedo and it will have its own signature that makes it easier to shoot.
Not sure if we should just make these limited supply, will have to see it in action to know the best approach.

Some other ideas is that some things can only be produced OUTSIDE of combat. That will make these specific ordinance special and it would be reckless to use them willy nilly. We also can consider how we are getting these materials (salvaging ships, excivating planets/moons/asteroids) which will make certain materials needed for better ordinance rarer and thus used less. This also will give the crew a sense of progression (as we find better materials in different locations) while also having to be savvy with what we need. Either way this brings in interesting mechanics:
- Finding materials
- Material progression leading to better gear
- Choosing what to store on the ship (limited space)
- A sense of progression
- Ability to throw in special things that the crew can choose when to use
- Dynamic ordinance makes the combat interesting as well as situational

I would love to know everyones thoughts on this so we can develop it a bit further and see how it works out in the MVP. Obviously we will make a much more simplified version of this system to start off with and then go from there. Anyways those are my thoughts so far, I will keep on thinking and we can progress from there. I have some ideas for the interface but it will come down to how navigation and EMDAR look.
Also I haven't read everything on how the ship currently works so please let me know if anything contraditcs.

And as always take care when firing, mass effect covered this better than I can:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reIUf3552_Q

Also: Something to note, I got an email about this post being added to the group even though I was the one that made it. Is that intended in the email system?

comments

Comments

NeerajA's picture

I like the modular approach and the idea of manufacture-on-demand. A couple of points our research has raised so far:

Directing torpedoes requires a data link. For this to be non-traceable back to source and non-hackable, a tight, focussed transmission type is required. This can be lost if the torp or vessel make significant changes in position relative to each other. (essentially the equivalent of cutting the guide-wire on a sub-launched torpedo).

Over any appreciable distance I doubt unguided torpedoes would be much use at all except against a completely stationary target?

EMDAR is very computer-intensive. Anything that would be strapped to a torpedo would therefore be pretty simplistic (likely to focus on a relatively narrow EM range). So guidance from the ship's more powerful systems for as long as possible would be best. Active sensors give much better performance from a small form-factor but can be tracked by their emissions so going active would probably need to be reserved to the last possible minute.

 

mattm's picture

What are your thoughts on what the system that configures, assembles and launches these torpedoes will look like? Is it likely to be automated (faster) or require manual crew processes (slower but more flexible and less susceptible to damage)?

Is the manufacture-on-demand system closely integrated with this, or a separate system?

Slydev's picture

I feel like it should all be automated with manual fallbacks. So the AFP can create and also load torpedo bays. Having manual loading though could lead to another job, but I am not sure if it would be exciting or nessisairy. For that reason alone I feel that making it automated is just 'easier' for now. We can always come up with more manual tasks later if we want.

Alfisti's picture

When I first read the "sticky" payload title, I was actually expecting something similar to HESH (High Explosive Squash Head). :P

Did you have any thoughts as to how many fabricators might be available? The ship is currently slated to have 6no. torpedo tubes: 4no. forward facing and 2no. aft, each with its own dedicated magazine. At a guess you would want at least two fabricators, for redundancy's sake and also to simply internal layout (there's a bit of a gap betwen forward and aft magazines). Three would be preferable, (one aft, one for the port forward tubes, one for the starboard), purely for the purposes of simplifying internal layout, though it also depends on how large the units would need to be and how much of a chunk it would take from the ready magazine.

The warloads definitely seem like go-ers though, per your comment, I'm unsure as to how comfortable I am with the fabricator constructing things that go "boom" in a large way. Speaking of which: we will also need to look at how the AFP fits into the ready magazine, as there was some intention to incorporate blow-off panels to let any accidental detonations vent to space rather than into the people-tank... and we'll need to sit down with the propulsion crowd to see just how much miniaturisaion can be eeked out of the drive technology. It will need to be able to get reasonable acceleration for extended periods for a truly guided/boosted weapon.

And speaking of the potential for a guided weapon, yes, always take care when firing. Maintaining stealth might make it difficult to fit an IFF transponder, so once fired, Mr. torpedo is not your friend.

 

Oh, and yes: the system will send you an email about your own post.

 

Slydev's picture

I am sorry I took so long to respond to this!

I didn't know about HESH rounds, that is cool! I have expanded on this in my newer post but basically for now the sticky was just an interesting concept that could lead to some interesting uses!

I had origionally invisioned one big fabricator in the centre of the ship (with the torpedo bays leading out from there). The fabrication plant would have 3 parts:

- Storage (raw materials and created things)
- Fabrication (the printer/creator arms/etc)
- Distribution (getting items back to storage and into torpedo bays)

I was thinking it would be in the centre of the ship and also near explosive materials, really if something has breached to it, its game over anyways so having more than one might not be nessisairy. That aside there is a lot of ways we can approach this, for now its just a "area of the ship that makes things automatically", how it does that and the method and restrictions will have to come with understanding more of how everything else feels (and has to be able to be tweaked clearly).

In saying that we can make them smaller and put them closer to the torpedo tubes. The reason I went with one is that there is less things to repair as well as it would be used to make other things too (plot wise anyways). I am also not fully across the internal layout though so this could mess with things, happy for whatever works. I am more interested in the system that it works on than the logistics of layout and how it looks, so happy for you to go for whatever you think is best there :)

The issue with fabrication of 'things that go boom' is that those things will most likely be in storeage (either created already or in raw materias which are still quite boom-prone) so we still have the same issue either way. Obviously the fabrication process would take into account the dangers of some parts which most likely will be the last to go into finished warheads (which are not armed till they are in the tube but still can explode as that is the nature of things).

What would the ready magazine look like?
How many would we have ready to go? 

These questions are really important for balancing of weapons, so we have to decide on a rate of fire and actual 'power' of torpedos (which I assume will go through a lot of tweaking).

As for guided weapons I expanded a lot on this in my last post, there are some seirous advantages (and disadvanatages) to guided and smart payloads over dumb ones that make them an important addition. Especially as our sideways aiming is non-existant ATM.

I do think we should consider side on launchers mainly because if we were up against another ship with the same layout (4 front, 2 rear) the ship facing the other ships side would win instantly (and be in a bit of a blind spot). Though the side rails wont be able to be as long (and thus as powerful). We don't know how fast things we run into may be and we don't want weaknesses like that to happen. This will also come down to how fast we can move/turn compared to how fast a torpedo can.

I feel that a lot of these questions will be answered we start on hunter killer and get a better idea of the feel for things. See how they play out and what is good/bad. I really am happy to change anything at all but I want to head towards a good direction and I don't have enough in my head to get there yet I think so for now I am keeping it as dynamic as possible with the idea that we will roll back what is too powerful (instead of having to add on things because it isn't 'fun' enough)

Thanks for your replies, let me know what you think :)